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key word there was "attempt."

"....................." is all I have to say.

You could have just said, "Sorry I didn't understand your point the first time."

David J. Stepp (DJS92491) said:
There's so much misinformation about this rebuttal that there's really too much to go into for me to respond.  So fluck, you win on a count of being so misinformed that I lost the will to debate with you. 

fluck said:

where did i say that izod was making weezer do anything? i'm not denying rivers is enjoying himself, or anything of the sort. my point, which you still cannot seem to grasp, is that some weezer fans (weezerwoman, for instance) find this kind of thing to be distasteful, and as such wish to share their displeasure on the band's message board. you don't get to make assumptions about said boardies' quality of their life, or tell them to leave simply because you disagree with them.


and frankly, i don't think it's pointless or unnecessary to criticize the band for doing this kind of thing. they are completely backwards when it comes to promotion and marketing, and the more fans that make this clear to rivers, the better. if they want to sell more copies of hurley, they should put out the second video, do a proper release of the second single, and plan an actual tour in support of the album. showing up in an izod/indy car commercial (which doesn't appeal to their market at all, btw) and playing a snippet of a song no one will ever hear on the radio is not going to sell more albums.


David J. Stepp (DJS92491) said:

Fluck, it's not like they were standing there and just posing.  If it was something as simple as, "Hi, we're Weezer!  And we wear Izod!"  Which would undoubtedly be funny to me if it was only that, but it was a fun shoot.  Did you see Rivers' latest Facebook default pic?  It's from the shoot.  He's in a flucking jumpsuit and helmet dribbling a soccer ball.  Holllly crap, what has Izod done to Weezer?!  Look at Rivers enjoying himself...it's just so TERRIFYING.

fluck said:

going to break this down to make this easier.

"weezer fans like yourself"

lol

"It wasn't done at all to show a middle finger to the fans."

of course not, but that doesn't mean that fans don't have the right to be offended by such crass marketing.

"there is something wrong with criticizing the band over a misunderstanding."

what misunderstanding? the misunderstanding that weezerwoman had about being unaware that weezer is so willing to whore themselves out for any company that will cut them a check? at least this time they got to use their own song.


"So again, Fluck, your thread was pointless.  I hope you realize this and close it."

lol

 

David J. Stepp (DJS92491) said:

Look, fluck, I do agree with you.  That logic was flawed, but really my whole problem with this thread was Weezer fans like yourself not seeing why Weezer is doing what they're doing and then explaining why.  Then this whole thing was turned by you and placemats saying that my criticism of this was focused on WeezerWoman not having fun.  Why would I complain about that?  What she posted to me as a response was really heartfelt and nothing Weezer is doing was meant to cause that.  It wasn't done at all to show a middle finger to the fans. 

 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Weezer, but there is something wrong with criticizing the band over a misunderstanding.  Something you've ignored with this thread and with my slight fault of logic.  So again, Fluck, your thread was pointless.  I hope you realize this and close it.

Oh, good.  I can fix this now.

 

That was a typo, a simple accident, unlike your use of "on a count" in your last post.

David J. Stepp (DJS92491) said:

your* Placemats, why even add to the discussion if you're only going to say that?  :/

placemats said:
No young Sassquatch, you're words are pointless junk, not the thread.

David J. Stepp (DJS92491) said:
Oh, btw, close the thread. :)  Pointless and junk...yes.

Wow. For once, fluck and I are in total agreement. 

David, I assume that you and I are not going to agree, and I'm not sure if you genuinely enjoy the dialogue or are just reveling in the opportunity to be antagonistic, but I'll try to explain myself, anyway.

 

In saying that I was taking this too seriously, you failed to consider a key point: that I have a life outside this forum. 

 

For instance: a few years ago, I had sort of a mental breakdown and spent more than a year sleeping 14 hours a day, drinking myself to sleep every night, and refusing to go out in public. I was isolated, friendless, and despondent. I don't know if you've ever heard of a "Dark Night of the Soul," but I was in the midst of a very long, dark night. (I actually didn't listen to Weezer all that much during those times; I didn't enjoy anything any more. However, I'm sure this experience is part of why I feel such a kinship to Pinkerton.) 


It took a long time to emerge from that, and it's been the most difficult struggle of my life. Having made it to the other side, I've discovered a love for life, and philosophy, and contemplation/meditation, and theology, and all of those studies about the human condition, and states of being. Also: I'm happy now, for the first time ever, and I think about things very differently than I used to. As human beings, we have a responsibility to ourselves and to society to discover and refine our identity--which is the truth that we embody, and the essence of our being. I can say with certainty that this is the only way to fulfillment--both individually, and societally. If you look closely, you'll find that this sentiment is echoed in many circles (including Vipassana, I believe.) 


Now you have a better idea of the lens through which I see my life. Is it any surprise, then, that I should apply these thoughts to my favorite band? 

You said yourself that everyone had a personal story about Pinkerton. I think that that statement illustrates my point precisely--Pinkerton was the most honest, candid, insightful album that Weezer has ever released. Its beauty lies in Rivers' adherence to his own personal truth, and in the courage that it took to share that with the public. People respond very strongly to truth, whether they seek to embrace or avoid it. As human beings, something in it resonates with us, and stimulates our consciousness. I believe that that's why Pinkerton touched as many people as it did--it taught us all a little something about the human experience.

 

That being said, it grieves me to think that the world will be denied more albums like Pinkerton because Weezer is more concerned with making money and having a good time instead of pursuing their art for its own sake. (By the way, I loled at the image of Rivers digging around in his sofa cushions and coming up with a fistful of lint and odd change.) The world needs more albums like Pinkerton. The world needs artists, musicians, writers, philosophers, and theologians. Art edifies society, elevates us to a place above ourselves. Tragically, many people are not brave enough to pursue art to begin with, or abandon their pursuit once their expression has made them a comfortable living. What was once a creative force has now been relegated to just another mean to an end, and as we subject truth and expression to our materialism, they become trivialized and meaningless--just so much noise. 

"Selling out" is what's wrong with society, in a nut shell. If I never see anything like Pinkerton out of Weezer again, it will disappoint me, yes. However, I believe in the freedom of every human being, and Weezer's choices are theirs to make. There's no harm in wishing that it were different. In fact, giving up that hope would be denying my own personal truth. 

 

 

So, maybe "too seriously" for some is "just seriously enough" for others. All of that was probably too long for most people to read/a big overshare, but that's all right. I get something out of writing, so it's served some purpose for me.

First off, fluck is being supportive of you to antagonize me.  Just to get that part out of the way.


Secondly, saying you don't have a life outside of this forum is beyond idiotic and something that I did not say.  It is what placemats and fluck said that I said.  WeezerWoman, I apologize that placemats and fluck are blowing this way out of proportion for their own fun and that their influence made you believe I meant that to be a negative comment towards you.  It was at first when I said that you were whining about it, but the second negative comment was only something that placemats and fluck were attempting to put on me.

 

What I said was a matter of words working off of each other.  I made the point that Weezer is having fun with what they are doing, and then I suggested that you should have fun too simply to drive my point.  Perhaps I should have just been straight forward with you.  For that, I apologize.

 

Fluck and placemats drew you to pour your soul out to me and that was a really crappy thing for them to do.  Your personal life should have in no way been involved in this discussion that went from a debate to mudslinging.  I'm very glad that you were able to overcome the darkness in your life.  I wish for you a continuing happiness and a peaceful state of mind. 

 

This discussion is no longer worth debating after all of this crap went down and fluck, once again, please close this discussion.

WeezerWoman said:

Wow. For once, fluck and I are in total agreement. 

David, I assume that you and I are not going to agree, and I'm not sure if you genuinely enjoy the dialogue or are just reveling in the opportunity to be antagonistic, but I'll try to explain myself, anyway.

 

In saying that I was taking this too seriously, you failed to consider a key point: that I have a life outside this forum. 

 

For instance: a few years ago, I had sort of a mental breakdown and spent more than a year sleeping 14 hours a day, drinking myself to sleep every night, and refusing to go out in public. I was isolated, friendless, and despondent. I don't know if you've ever heard of a "Dark Night of the Soul," but I was in the midst of a very long, dark night. (I actually didn't listen to Weezer all that much during those times; I didn't enjoy anything any more. However, I'm sure this experience is part of why I feel such a kinship to Pinkerton.) 


It took a long time to emerge from that, and it's been the most difficult struggle of my life. Having made it to the other side, I've discovered a love for life, and philosophy, and contemplation/meditation, and theology, and all of those studies about the human condition, and states of being. Also: I'm happy now, for the first time ever, and I think about things very differently than I used to. As human beings, we have a responsibility to ourselves and to society to discover and refine our identity--which is the truth that we embody, and the essence of our being. I can say with certainty that this is the only way to fulfillment--both individually, and societally. If you look closely, you'll find that this sentiment is echoed in many circles (including Vipassana, I believe.) 


Now you have a better idea of the lens through which I see my life. Is it any surprise, then, that I should apply these thoughts to my favorite band? 

You said yourself that everyone had a personal story about Pinkerton. I think that that statement illustrates my point precisely--Pinkerton was the most honest, candid, insightful album that Weezer has ever released. Its beauty lies in Rivers' adherence to his own personal truth, and in the courage that it took to share that with the public. People respond very strongly to truth, whether they seek to embrace or avoid it. As human beings, something in it resonates with us, and stimulates our consciousness. I believe that that's why Pinkerton touched as many people as it did--it taught us all a little something about the human experience.

 

That being said, it grieves me to think that the world will be denied more albums like Pinkerton because Weezer is more concerned with making money and having a good time instead of pursuing their art for its own sake. (By the way, I loled at the image of Rivers digging around in his sofa cushions and coming up with a fistful of lint and odd change.) The world needs more albums like Pinkerton. The world needs artists, musicians, writers, philosophers, and theologians. Art edifies society, elevates us to a place above ourselves. Tragically, many people are not brave enough to pursue art to begin with, or abandon their pursuit once their expression has made them a comfortable living. What was once a creative force has now been relegated to just another mean to an end, and as we subject truth and expression to our materialism, they become trivialized and meaningless--just so much noise. 

"Selling out" is what's wrong with society, in a nut shell. If I never see anything like Pinkerton out of Weezer again, it will disappoint me, yes. However, I believe in the freedom of every human being, and Weezer's choices are theirs to make. There's no harm in wishing that it were different. In fact, giving up that hope would be denying my own personal truth. 

 

 

So, maybe "too seriously" for some is "just seriously enough" for others. All of that was probably too long for most people to read/a big overshare, but that's all right. I get something out of writing, so it's served some purpose for me.
David, 
That's big of you to say, and I'm sorry if I took your comments the wrong way. Would you be interested in engaging in a debate about selling out, maybe on another thread?
group hug, plz.

you make a lot of assumptions, david. i don't appreciate it.

and since you missed it, weezerwoman did not accuse you of claiming she had no life outside of this forum. if weezerwoman was accusing you of such a thing, she wouldn't have prefaced it with "YOU FAILED TO CONSIDER."

and flucking please, placemats or i had nothing to do with this woman sharing her feelings. also, that mudslinging that you speak of came entirely from you. i've been quite civil, despite any attempts you've made to insult me.

finally, i don't see why this thread should be closed since you no longer want to take part in it. maybe you should just, you know, stop posting in it and let other people discuss the topic?

Lol you're too much.  Your call, fluck.

fluck said:

you make a lot of assumptions, david. i don't appreciate it.

and since you missed it, weezerwoman did not accuse you of claiming she had no life outside of this forum. if weezerwoman was accusing you of such a thing, she wouldn't have prefaced it with "YOU FAILED TO CONSIDER."

and flucking please, placemats or i had nothing to do with this woman sharing her feelings. also, that mudslinging that you speak of came entirely from you. i've been quite civil, despite any attempts you've made to insult me.

finally, i don't see why this thread should be closed since you no longer want to take part in it. maybe you should just, you know, stop posting in it and let other people discuss the topic?

Sure, but maybe through messages.

WeezerWoman said:
David, 
That's big of you to say, and I'm sorry if I took your comments the wrong way. Would you be interested in engaging in a debate about selling out, maybe on another thread?

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