Most people give Make Believe a lot of criticism, and needless to say Pinkerton is far past that stage and now regarded as one of the greatest albums of all time.

We see Pinkerton to be an expression of longing, sadness, and at times selfishness.  During that time Rivers is taking a lot of control of Weezer.

 

If Pinkerton is an expression of the pain in that part of Rivers' life, I see Make Believe as the expression of his emotions later on.  Make Believe is really an answer to the questions that Pinkerton presents.  I think maybe "We are All on Drugs" is the exception, but Make Believe is written from personal experience just like Pinkerton.  Songs like "Pardon Me", "Perfect Situation", "The Other Way", "Peace", "Freak Me Out" and "Haunt You Everyday" are still emotional and still very relatable, but other songs like "My Best Friend" and even "Hold Me" focus on answers and peace.

 

Also, it's been said before that "Beverly Hills" is not only a sincere desire, it's one of Rivers' favorite musical acheivements.  That song make sense to me as being some of the material that Rivers wants to wirte now and that he wants to take Weezer to a higher level, hence the collabs and experimentation with pop lately.

 

Opinions?

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Alright, let's all stop the fighting and stuff.

Essentially, I feel that the lyrical content of Make Believe has a lot to do with Rivers' coming to terms with a lot of his personal issues (expressed in Pinkerton) and finding peace.  Beyond that, his change in attitude around that time really reflects this as well.  To add to it, I think the success of "Beverly Hills" (Weezer's first #1) was a very validating thing for both him and the band.

My thesis is that Make Believe is just as artful and successful in expression as Pinkerton, and that it's a beautiful album for a lot of the same -- and some opposite --reasons as Pinkerton.

My question is, does anyone else feel Make Believe takes Weezer to a higher level similar to Pinkerton?

Thank you for elaborating radioactive. I actually
agree with you on some points but can't  type
much  atm- on phone.  

Radioactive said:

Alright, let's all stop the fighting and stuff.

Essentially, I feel that the lyrical content of Make Believe has a lot to do with Rivers' coming to terms with a lot of his personal issues (expressed in Pinkerton) and finding peace.  Beyond that, his change in attitude around that time really reflects this as well.  To add to it, I think the success of "Beverly Hills" (Weezer's first #1) was a very validating thing for both him and the band.

My thesis is that Make Believe is just as artful and successful in expression as Pinkerton, and that it's a beautiful album for a lot of the same -- and some opposite --reasons as Pinkerton.

My question is, does anyone else feel Make Believe takes Weezer to a higher level similar to Pinkerton?

Sounds like something Crackerjack would say.

Radioactive said:

This.  100%.  Please refer to this post as a guide.

And it probably was poorly-structured since I did it in 30 secs before having to jet off.

Stefan said:

These are the opinions that I took from the post:

Radioactive believes that:

-Make Believe is underated

-MB is similar to Pinkerton in the way that they're both emotional 

-MB works as a follow up to Pinkerton with some MB being continuations/resolutions

-Maybe in the future, MB will be more popular, like Pinkerton 

-Rivers' vest is awsum 

Actually, a contrarian in this scenario is someone who doesn't buy into the Make Believe hating. You even said that it was a minority. You should learn what contrarian means before you use it five times.


Also I wouldn't say drawing comparison between two albums by the same band requires all that much "thought and imagination." It's pretty see and say. 

I'd respond to Radioactive's point but my dog is back from outside and I'm going back to bed.

aO - r3tH>VHs H6i3l u3b - Bs said:

I understood. I'm quite sure a lot of people did. Stefan apparently thought so. But understanding requires a little bit of thought and comprehension. Who gives a ( ___) is right. But not regarding Radioactive's opinions. Rather who gives a ( ___ ) about the grammar and/or form. This isn't English Language !01. Radioactive shares a view that is clear. It's also one that is shared among a minority of Weezer fans who don't buy into the Make Believe hating. Something chronic contrarians, like you, live by. '

But as I said... Radioactive's contention in the original post was/is clear.. But it does require a little bit of thought and imagination.

You, Mark, asked - "What are the questions posed by pinkerton? what are the answers provided by make believe?"

For those of you English-Language-Purists.. Might you consider the 'questions' and 'answers' mightn't be so literal as your limited comprehension reads. 

Actually...

No. The Make Believe hating C-O-N-T-R-A-R-I-A-N-I-S-M around these boards come from the minority... They/You're just louder... As antaognists/devils-advocates/Whatever word you feel justifies your need to be heard - always are.

The 'majority' can be found in the math. Remind me, what was/is Make Believe and further, the Beverly Hills CDS sales Vs other Weezer Albums/Songs?

You haters, and contrarians.. or rather; you contrarians and haters - may be the more vocal, and possibly even the majority on these boards (which is a strange phenomenon in itself - this being a fan-site).. But you are not the majority. 

I made an error. I said fans when I meant fans who are also board members and users.

Gohi said:

Actually, a contrarian in this scenario is someone who doesn't buy into the Make Believe hating. You even said that it was a minority. You should learn what contrarian means before you use it five times.


Also I wouldn't say drawing comparison between two albums by the same band requires all that much "thought and imagination." It's pretty see and say. 

I'd respond to Radioactive's point but my dog is back from outside and I'm going back to bed.

aO - r3tH>VHs H6i3l u3b - Bs said:

I understood. I'm quite sure a lot of people did. Stefan apparently thought so. But understanding requires a little bit of thought and comprehension. Who gives a ( ___) is right. But not regarding Radioactive's opinions. Rather who gives a ( ___ ) about the grammar and/or form. This isn't English Language !01. Radioactive shares a view that is clear. It's also one that is shared among a minority of Weezer fans who don't buy into the Make Believe hating. Something chronic contrarians, like you, live by. '

But as I said... Radioactive's contention in the original post was/is clear.. But it does require a little bit of thought and imagination.

You, Mark, asked - "What are the questions posed by pinkerton? what are the answers provided by make believe?"

For those of you English-Language-Purists.. Might you consider the 'questions' and 'answers' mightn't be so literal as your limited comprehension reads. 

You're right in a way. Make Believe is emotional. The difference is that Pinkerton has brilliant musicianship and lyricism, whilst Make Believe does not. Pinkerton is GREAT and Make Believe is just 'good'.

The problem with Rivers wanting to take Weezer in the direction of Top 40 pop (which I hope he gets over, as he is capable of much greater things) is that (or at least, he feels that) the music and lyrics really have to be restrained for the mainstream in order to do well. This was shown entirely on Make Believe where the lyrics were "very relatable" because they were generic (much like your horoscopes), and the music was nothing like the Weezer most knew and loved. I still really enjoy it - it's a well made pop-ballads album, but it should never be mentioned alongside the masterpiece that is Pinkerton.

Even if Make Believe is linked to Pinkerton in some way doesn't make it any less terrible.

Is that why Make Believe is near universally panned by both critics and fans? I actually like the album. Calm down, zippy. The only reason Make Believe sold so well is because it had huge singles. It's the Weezer cd I most often see in the used section for what it's worth. Thanks for spelling contrarianism for everybody.

Clearly I'm a hater. That's why I see the band any chance I get, why I moderate on this forum and why I bought alone 3 immediately despite the price. Oh and that's why I'm going on the cruise. I'm such a hater. Go update your Weezer.com profile, buddy.

aO - r3tH>VHs H6i3l u3b - Bs said:

Actually...

No. The Make Believe hating C-O-N-T-R-A-R-I-A-N-I-S-M around these boards come from the minority... They/You're just louder... As antaognists/devils-advocates/Whatever word you feel justifies your need to be heard - always are.

The 'majority' can be found in the math. Remind me, what was/is Make Believe and further, the Beverly Hills CDS sales Vs other Weezer Albums/Songs?

You haters, and contrarians.. or rather; you contrarians and haters - may be the more vocal, and possibly even the majority on these boards (which is a strange phenomenon in itself - this being a fan-site).. But you are not the majority. 

I made an error. I said fans when I meant fans who are also board members and users.

Gohi said:

Actually, a contrarian in this scenario is someone who doesn't buy into the Make Believe hating. You even said that it was a minority. You should learn what contrarian means before you use it five times.


Also I wouldn't say drawing comparison between two albums by the same band requires all that much "thought and imagination." It's pretty see and say. 

I'd respond to Radioactive's point but my dog is back from outside and I'm going back to bed.

aO - r3tH>VHs H6i3l u3b - Bs said:

I understood. I'm quite sure a lot of people did. Stefan apparently thought so. But understanding requires a little bit of thought and comprehension. Who gives a ( ___) is right. But not regarding Radioactive's opinions. Rather who gives a ( ___ ) about the grammar and/or form. This isn't English Language !01. Radioactive shares a view that is clear. It's also one that is shared among a minority of Weezer fans who don't buy into the Make Believe hating. Something chronic contrarians, like you, live by. '

But as I said... Radioactive's contention in the original post was/is clear.. But it does require a little bit of thought and imagination.

You, Mark, asked - "What are the questions posed by pinkerton? what are the answers provided by make believe?"

For those of you English-Language-Purists.. Might you consider the 'questions' and 'answers' mightn't be so literal as your limited comprehension reads. 

I love Make Believe, and Pinkerton.  "Hold Me" is one of my favorites because it reminds me of Pinkerton.

Pinkerton will always be closer to my heart because of how dirty it sounds.  Not only in the distortion, but in the lyrics.  Rivers didn't hold anything back on Pinkerton, whereas Make Believe's lyrics seem polished.

"Pardon Me" has one of my favorite =w= moments in it.  The transition out of the bridge into the last chorus is great!

Make Believe experimented more with the =w= sounds...adding keys for the first time since Pinkerton, and has the best guitar solos on any =w= album.  "Freak Me Out" is very haunting, I just wish Rivers never told us that it's about a spider.  "Haunt You Every Day" with it's two shredding solos, is a great album closer.

I'm with you in saying Make Believe is underrated/hated on too much, but nothing will ever compare to Pinkerton.  You can't just go and replicate all the things that went into Pinkerton without forcing some of it.

On a side note, I used to think Maladroit would spawn a new genre of metal/hard rock, the same way Pinkerton inspired a lot of "emo" bands in the late 90's/early 00s, but alas, I don't think that is happening, and I don't think Make Believe will do that either.

your use of the term metal in reference to Maladroit offends me as a fan of metal.

Gregor =w= Langbehn said:

I used to think Maladroit would spawn a new genre of metal/hard rock

I agree with you.

You're right.  Rivers is more of a wood.

RUSeriousBro? [spaz] said:

your use of the term metal in reference to Maladroit offends me as a fan of metal.

Gregor =w= Langbehn said:

I used to think Maladroit would spawn a new genre of metal/hard rock

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