NEW FANS™ MISSING THE POINT?
This is a funny forum because just about every week or so we get somebody complaining that grumpy old fans (not unlike myself) just want Weezer to "write another Blue album" or "write another Pinkerton," whereas these enlightened (mostly newer) fans ramble on about how a band needs to be allowed to grow blah blah blah (paraphrasing here) and expand their horizons and write different music if the mood strikes them because they are different people now and blah blah blah (paraphrasing again.)
One thing that seems to be lost on these fans is that the Grumpy Old Fan™ does not necessarily seek another Blue or Pink and is not opposed to writing different types of songs. New fans seem to lead the charge with the battle cry "LET THEM BE DIFFERENT, LET THEM GROW."
No problem. What they don't seem to understand is that TBA and Pinkerton are VERY VERY VERY different albums, musically and thematically to varying degrees. Why do you think Pinkerton was so universally detested when it was original released.... "THIS ISN'T WEEZER!" I can't speak for every older fan but I really don't think we want them regurgitating music.
Different is fine, so long as it's good. Make sense?
One thing that seems to be lost on these fans is that the Grumpy Old Fan™ does not necessarily seek another Blue or Pink and is not opposed to writing different types of songs. New fans seem to lead the charge with the battle cry "LET THEM BE DIFFERENT, LET THEM GROW."
No problem. What they don't seem to understand is that TBA and Pinkerton are VERY VERY VERY different albums, musically and thematically to varying degrees. Why do you think Pinkerton was so universally detested when it was original released.... "THIS ISN'T WEEZER!" I can't speak for every older fan but I really don't think we want them regurgitating music.
Different is fine, so long as it's good. Make sense?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ouizer on -
Jared N said:i love every weezer album anyway, yer even raditude
cool.....
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Permalink Reply by Myles Farley on -
Very true!!
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Permalink Reply by Shredder on -
Agreed. You can still be a devout fan to a band and dislike an album. That's not a sin. It's not like you're gonna love everything that is put out there.
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Permalink Reply by Weird Lad on -
I lost all respect for you when you said "the screaming is pretty obnoxious". Sorry that Rivers is allowed to have emotion. (By the way, Tired of Sex is one of the most amazing songs ever. So, go away.)
MakeUpOnShelf said:"Different is fine, so as long as it's good. Make sense?"
Not really. What you're saying is somewhat of a contradiction. This may or may not be what you're going for. Nevertheless, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "Good" is a poor choice of a word. Many people who listen to Pinkerton can't get through "Tired of Sex" because of how rough it sounds (the screaming is pretty obnoxious).
By this logic Make Believe, The Red Album, Raditude, and Hurley still have the potential to be beloved Weezer albums some day. I'd say Make Believe has a chance, then again here I am making the same contradiction since Make Believe is the oldest album.
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Permalink Reply by MakeUpOnShelf on
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Don't be an ass.
Knowing the context of the album, I don't personally think it's obnoxious. But that's not to say that the song might not sound very appealing to someone listening for the first time.
Weird Lad said:
I lost all respect for you when you said "the screaming is pretty obnoxious". Sorry that Rivers is allowed to have emotion. (By the way, Tired of Sex is one of the most amazing songs ever. So, go away.)
MakeUpOnShelf said:"Different is fine, so as long as it's good. Make sense?"
Not really. What you're saying is somewhat of a contradiction. This may or may not be what you're going for. Nevertheless, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "Good" is a poor choice of a word. Many people who listen to Pinkerton can't get through "Tired of Sex" because of how rough it sounds (the screaming is pretty obnoxious).
By this logic Make Believe, The Red Album, Raditude, and Hurley still have the potential to be beloved Weezer albums some day. I'd say Make Believe has a chance, then again here I am making the same contradiction since Make Believe is the oldest album.
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Permalink Reply by oktobermama on -
I think the real issue is not between "old" and "new" fans as much as between people who have respect for the band and those who do not. Weezer has a large discography. Different people are going to like different albums more than others. Of course you can be a fan of a band and not love everything they put out. I have been a fan of Weezer since the very beginning. Saw them live for the first time in 1995. They are still one of my favorite bands. I can honestly say there is not a Weezer album I do not like. Sure, some I like more than others, but I have favorite songs on each album. The issue of respect comes to play with people who claim to be fans of Weezer yet say negative things about the majority of their discography.
Can't we all agree that if you claim to detest the majority of a band's albums, you are not actually a fan of that band? I don't understand people who claim to dislike everything post Pinkerton and feel the need to complain to Weezer/Rivers about it. Pinkerton was released a long time ago, if you do not like the many other albums Weezer has released since then, maybe it is time to accept Weezer for who they are and move on. I do not waste my precious time listening to music I don't like nor do I trash talk artists I don't listen to (even if I used to like them). I would also never suggest that I know more than the band regarding which members should be playing which instruments--they are the experts here, I think they've got it covered.
And yes, Blue Album and Pinkerton are very different albums. Really each album has a very distinct sound and feel, yet they're all distinctly Weezer (how cool is that?!)
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Permalink Reply by Triumphant_Loser on -
That is so freaking true.
oktobermama said:I think the real issue is not between "old" and "new" fans as much as between people who have respect for the band and those who do not. Weezer has a large discography. Different people are going to like different albums more than others. Of course you can be a fan of a band and not love everything they put out. I have been a fan of Weezer since the very beginning. Saw them live for the first time in 1995. They are still one of my favorite bands. I can honestly say there is not a Weezer album I do not like. Sure, some I like more than others, but I have favorite songs on each album. The issue of respect comes to play with people who claim to be fans of Weezer yet say negative things about the majority of their discography. Can't we all agree that if you claim to detest the majority of a band's albums, you are not actually a fan of that band? I don't understand people who claim to dislike everything post Pinkerton and feel the need to complain to Weezer/Rivers about it. Pinkerton was released a long time ago, if you do not like the many other albums Weezer has released since then, maybe it is time to accept Weezer for who they are and move on. I do not waste my precious time listening to music I don't like nor do I trash talk artists I don't listen to (even if I used to like them). I would also never suggest that I know more than the band regarding which members should be playing which instruments--they are the experts here, I think they've got it covered.
And yes, Blue Album and Pinkerton are very different albums. Really each album has a very distinct sound and feel, yet they're all distinctly Weezer (how cool is that?!)
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Permalink Reply by Amuro on -
Really disagree with this. I don't rate the majority of their albums very highly (hate Raditude and half of Red; never really listen to maladroit or make believe because I find them boring; think Green is very flawed) but I, and all my friends, would not only call me a fan but a fanatic. I love the first 2 albums yeah, but also all the b-sides from that period and the increasing number of unreleased songs from that period. I love the songs that would have been considered for Weezer's third album, and genuinely adore the homie songs we have. Although not to the same degree as other material, I really appreciated the sound of SS2K and am gutted it was never made into an album. I love a lot of old and new songs uncovered on the Alone series, and like the sound of a lot of Death to False Metal. I really like a lot of the songs on the albums I mentioned before, even if I don't like the albums as a whole. I also like a lot of the b-sides/deluxe tracks to those albums.
Given my love of so much material, old and new, it's not really a case of me 'hating' the band's new output. But don't I have a right to complain that the albums the band release don't reflect the brilliant output that the band makes behind the scenes, possibly never to be released? Instead, albums seem to be caught up with gimmicks that exclude a lot of great material. The fact that I love the bands material so much that I find a lot of the albums very frustrating (Pig and Miss Sweeney not getting onto Red is a perfect example of this) shouldn't mean that I'm not a 'fan'.
oktobermama said:I think the real issue is not between "old" and "new" fans as much as between people who have respect for the band and those who do not. Weezer has a large discography. Different people are going to like different albums more than others. Of course you can be a fan of a band and not love everything they put out. I have been a fan of Weezer since the very beginning. Saw them live for the first time in 1995. They are still one of my favorite bands. I can honestly say there is not a Weezer album I do not like. Sure, some I like more than others, but I have favorite songs on each album. The issue of respect comes to play with people who claim to be fans of Weezer yet say negative things about the majority of their discography.
Can't we all agree that if you claim to detest the majority of a band's albums, you are not actually a fan of that band? I don't understand people who claim to dislike everything post Pinkerton and feel the need to complain to Weezer/Rivers about it. Pinkerton was released a long time ago, if you do not like the many other albums Weezer has released since then, maybe it is time to accept Weezer for who they are and move on. I do not waste my precious time listening to music I don't like nor do I trash talk artists I don't listen to (even if I used to like them). I would also never suggest that I know more than the band regarding which members should be playing which instruments--they are the experts here, I think they've got it covered.
And yes, Blue Album and Pinkerton are very different albums. Really each album has a very distinct sound and feel, yet they're all distinctly Weezer (how cool is that?!)
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Permalink Reply by hintofcoolness on -
good post
Amuro said:Really disagree with this. I don't rate the majority of their albums very highly (hate Raditude and half of Red; never really listen to maladroit or make believe because I find them boring; think Green is very flawed) but I, and all my friends, would not only call me a fan but a fanatic. I love the first 2 albums yeah, but also all the b-sides from that period and the increasing number of unreleased songs from that period. I love the songs that would have been considered for Weezer's third album, and genuinely adore the homie songs we have. Although not to the same degree as other material, I really appreciated the sound of SS2K and am gutted it was never made into an album. I love a lot of old and new songs uncovered on the Alone series, and like the sound of a lot of Death to False Metal. I really like a lot of the songs on the albums I mentioned before, even if I don't like the albums as a whole. I also like a lot of the b-sides/deluxe tracks to those albums.
Given my love of so much material, old and new, it's not really a case of me 'hating' the band's new output. But don't I have a right to complain that the albums the band release don't reflect the brilliant output that the band makes behind the scenes, possibly never to be released? Instead, albums seem to be caught up with gimmicks that exclude a lot of great material. The fact that I love the bands material so much that I find a lot of the albums very frustrating (Pig and Miss Sweeney not getting onto Red is a perfect example of this) shouldn't mean that I'm not a 'fan'.
oktobermama said:I think the real issue is not between "old" and "new" fans as much as between people who have respect for the band and those who do not. Weezer has a large discography. Different people are going to like different albums more than others. Of course you can be a fan of a band and not love everything they put out. I have been a fan of Weezer since the very beginning. Saw them live for the first time in 1995. They are still one of my favorite bands. I can honestly say there is not a Weezer album I do not like. Sure, some I like more than others, but I have favorite songs on each album. The issue of respect comes to play with people who claim to be fans of Weezer yet say negative things about the majority of their discography.
Can't we all agree that if you claim to detest the majority of a band's albums, you are not actually a fan of that band? I don't understand people who claim to dislike everything post Pinkerton and feel the need to complain to Weezer/Rivers about it. Pinkerton was released a long time ago, if you do not like the many other albums Weezer has released since then, maybe it is time to accept Weezer for who they are and move on. I do not waste my precious time listening to music I don't like nor do I trash talk artists I don't listen to (even if I used to like them). I would also never suggest that I know more than the band regarding which members should be playing which instruments--they are the experts here, I think they've got it covered.
And yes, Blue Album and Pinkerton are very different albums. Really each album has a very distinct sound and feel, yet they're all distinctly Weezer (how cool is that?!)
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Permalink Reply by legendofchin97 on -
i wrote some of my best music when i was pissed off at my ex-girlfriend. rivers isn't so pissed off, so maybe he's not writing blue album-quality material, but i think he's writing exceptional music for someone with such a vast repertoire of music under his belt. and that catalog is growing fast with all these new releases. i don't understand weezer fully nor will anyone ever probably, but i really like them, and play all of their albums.
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Permalink Reply by pinkertonjunkie on -
i totally agree. even though Pinkerton changed my life, why should a band make the same album over and over again? it would just be boring. ever notice how every album sounds different from the last? they're not a boring band, even if some albums sucked a little, you can't knock them for being different.
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Permalink Reply by Mountain Don't on -
A lot of people seem to forget that Weezer has always been and will always be a pop rock band. I wholeheartedly believe that if you take Pinkerton out of the equation, Weezer's change from album to album makes a lot more musical sense (though I do recognize that you do have to consider the initial reaction/reception to Pinkerton in order to understand why the lyrical content changed so drastically between Blue and Green.) Unlike Blue and every album since, Pinkerton was like a snapshot of a certain moment in time. It captures all of the emotions and all of the craziness from a specific time and place and the music/lyrics definitely reflect that. Asking Weezer to write another Pinkerton is like asking someone to go through puberty again.
As an oldschool fan, I enjoy new Weezer. I own and listen to all of their records regularly. I honestly think that the Grumpy Old Fans™ would have nothing to b**** about if Weezer decided to strip their sound back down to guitar/bass/drums/occasional keys and got rid of the glossy overproduced sheen that has coated almost everything they've released since 2001. When I saw them live over the summer, I was amazed at how much a couple of the newer songs (Memories, IWYT) I didn't really like that much actually rocked when played live. This experience reaffirmed for me that new Weezer isn't really that different from old Weezer
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