In Defense of Rivers Cuomo.
I just don't really understand why everyone is so harsh on the post Blue and Pinkerton albums. Yes, these albums are magnificent and timeless, and changed music in my opinion. But then the Green Album came out with even more pop-rock gems. Then Maladroit which is one of the hard-ass-rockinest albums I've ever heard. These albums are amazing. Then Make Believe came along and shook things up with some beautifully produced melodies and still some intense rockers. Then Red, once again awesome songs. Greatest Man Who Ever Lived? Unbelievable. And Raditude which seems to get so much flack. This album is so fun. From the extremely catchy first notes of If You're Wondering to the club anthem I Cant Stop Partying, this album soars. And now we have Hurley which is like a throwback to the days of old. So what if you don't think these albums are as "timeless" or "perfect" as the first 2 albums. I don't think people understand that Rivers is pouring out his heart here and giving us his words and music. To be so rude and hurtful to him is just wrong I think. I love all of Weezer's albums, and I don't think Rivers owes it to anyone to make 6 more Pinkertons. All I'm saying is give the guy a break, and just enjoy the music.
Thank you, and Good Night.
Venting over.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by GalaxyDuster on -
It's one thing to be fairly critiqued... but it's another to just plain be made fun of or mocked. I guess that's what starts to irritate me.
blakesp26 said:life is one criticism after another. deal with it. if you're afraid of being critiqued in life, you will have a tough time. and they put music out for millions of people to hear...of course they would get criticized...they are big boys, they can handle it.
GalaxyDuster said:I can't imagine what it would be like to put a lot of time and effort into something, and then have a bunch of (very loud) people say they "hate it," or "it sucks."
Personally, I like to write, but odds are good I would never attempt to publish anything... simply for fear that people would not notice it... or worse, make fun of it. People can be so judgemental and cruel.
The problem is, the people that scream the loudest "hahaha, this sucks!" don't have anything better to show for themselves. It's a one-way street. You can criticize these guys' work, but they can't criticize your work. How many people who claim "everything after the first two albums sucks" would have the cojones to put up their most prized creation and allow it to be judged by millions of people? Probably not too many. Worse, half of those people probably don't really mean what they say - they're just jumping on some invisible bandwagon because they think it makes them sound "elite."
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Permalink Reply by Paperface on -
You nailed it on the head.
Except "Love Is The Answer" is pretty awful...
Eileen S said:I agree. He isn't gonna write another Pinkerton because (1) He has said he doesn't want to and (2) His situation has changed. He can't honestly write the sad, lonely, type stuff because he's married, has a kid, and sounds pretty darn happy. Even though Blue and Pinkerton were amazing, I haven't hated a Weezer song yet, and I don't think I ever will.
BTW, well said Josh.
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Permalink Reply by Eileen S on -
Why, thank you.
elscorcho said:You nailed it on the head.
Except "Love Is The Answer" is pretty awful...
Eileen S said:I agree. He isn't gonna write another Pinkerton because (1) He has said he doesn't want to and (2) His situation has changed. He can't honestly write the sad, lonely, type stuff because he's married, has a kid, and sounds pretty darn happy. Even though Blue and Pinkerton were amazing, I haven't hated a Weezer song yet, and I don't think I ever will.
BTW, well said Josh.
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Permalink Reply by Marc on -
If you willingly get into the music industry, you are willingly opening yourself up to criticism. So, if I were to write songs and get picked up by a label, I would do so with the expectation of people not only loving but hating my music.
In short, I do not feel bad for musicians that are criticized. It's their choice. Poor millionaires, life isn't fair.
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Permalink Reply by BackToSchool on -
You're totally missing the point. My qualms with present day Weezer have nothing to do with an "i was here first" mentality. If that was it, then I wouldn't waste my time trying to explain why there IS a vast difference in quality between the first two records and the new material. For me, it has everything to do with the quality and substance of their music and I've yet to see a single person effectively argue that their new material is anywhere near as good as their old. And before you start the silly "opinion" debate---
There are a number of parameters by which "good" and "bad" music can be judged and compared. I know a bunch of you don't want to hear this, but it's true. It is not different than any other art form- there is room for both subjective and objective evaluation. Subjectively, I don't like new Weezer. Subjectively, you do. This is fine- good even. However, objectively, I can prove that the Green album for example, does not approach the complexity of Pinkerton on song by song basis just by analyzing the chord sequences. Of course, one's ears can tell them that easily enough. If you know how to recognize a key change when you hear one, then it's patently obvious that any song on Green is stupidly simple compared to "The Good Life", "Across The Sea", "Falling For You", "No Other One", etc.
If you know how to read, likewise, and how to analyze what you've read, you can very easily determine for yourself how far short most of the new Weezer material is lyrically compared to Pinkerton. Everyone's gut response is " 'i'm dumb she's a lesbian'-yeah that's real mature "- but this is just willful self-deception.
Weezer songs today generally are literal, with a literal interpretation, and with little to none of Rivers' personality in them. He himself would admit this and in fact I just read an interview the other day where Karl himself complained about the way Rivers had changed lyrics in one of his songs to make them less personal and less interesting. It was song written for Shrek 2 that ended up not being used, I don't recall the title.
And let's talk about SFTBH. What makes that material great is not "emotions". Emotions are never what made Weezer a great band. It was a number of factors in tandem that are now missing from the band, but which all boil down to the Rivers' attitude about songwriting. 100%, that's all it is.
I'm not "lost" or "sad". In fact I feel sorry for people who are totally happy with stuff like Green and Raditude. It's depthless, soulless music. It doesn't even scratch the surface of Rivers' talent. It is utterly beneath what he's capable of. But he knows YOU will buy it.
But I won't buy it. If that makes me "not a fan" to you, I could not care less. I will stop listening to any band that stops making what I deem to be good music in a heartbeat, with no remorse about it. It's not personal- but I want to hear music that inspires me. And I'm not inspired by "catchy, fun" mall-pop. I find Weezer's output disappointing because I know how much better they can be.
Karl Seiwert said:well Josh, I totally agree with you all the way 100%. All of these Weezer fans say that they love the band, but spend all of their time bashing everything post-Pinkerton. I have only seen Weezer live twice and the conversations around me were (2008) "I hope they don't play new stuff...I am only here to hear the blue album and pinkerton" and (2010) "I haven't even listened to anything Weezer after the Green Album". I can't believe what these people around me sound like! Well, both times I has happy to sing along with every song and see those sad, lost Weezer fans just sit there when something from Red or Raditude came on.
It can't be argued that Rivers still sings songs true to himself: Pork and Beans, Time Flies, Memories...to name a few. And whose to say that every song in the past was all emotion. He still wrote songs for the sake of songs back then. For example, if tired of sex was originally written for the rock opera SFTBH, then it had to do with the characters Jonas and Maria, not Rivers Himself. Just sayin- Rivers wrote songs back then for the sake of making music, as he does it today. The difference is there are more stuck up "Iwasthefirst" fans surrounding the band today.
Rivers said it best "I'm finally dandy with the me inside" ----and he doesn't give a hoot about what you think.
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Permalink Reply by crystal iceburg on -
here's the problem; tba and pinkerton are perfection, from beginning to end. that's a given. with tga, rivers was merely trying to write pop songs that would sell, trying to figure out the perfect song formula. there's nothing personal or intimate about it. maladroit was an experimentation with fan imput, and at the time was a failed experiment. we go back to the pop song formula for make believe. tra was a hit and miss album(some songs are really good and some are really bad), raditude another formulaic album, and hurley is another hit and miss.
i always go back to pinkerton and tba because there's a complexity there that allows me to appreciate them on different levels at different times of my life. i don't even think about the other albums hardly because there's no reason to revisit them, they're one dimensional. i don't feel any deeper connection with most of the songs post pinkerton, there's no longer intimacy with the music. yes we sometimes get exceptions such as taato but they're few and far between. =w='s music is becoming overproduced and emotionless. even when the lyrics might have some depth, the music is diluted. and viceversa, great melodies are given lyrics that are ridiculous at times.
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel [bleed0range] on -
crystal_iceburg said:
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
Perfection is a happy accident. Nobody knows exactly what the secret formula is to a perfect song, album, movie, whatever. If they did, George Lucas' sequels wouldn't have sucked so bad.
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Permalink Reply by crystal iceburg on
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i disagree, nothing could have saved the star wars prequelogy from sucking balls.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:
crystal_iceburg said:
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
Perfection is a happy accident. Nobody knows exactly what the secret formula is to a perfect song, album, movie, whatever. If they did, George Lucas' sequels wouldn't have sucked so bad.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel [bleed0range] on
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Yeah, but that's beside the point. The point is you can't control the quality of your creative output, it just comes to you or is inspired by something. You can try to make it better, but you can't necessarily make a "blue album" or "pinkerton" if you tried, it just kind of happens.
crystal_iceburg said:i disagree, nothing could have saved the star wars prequelogy from sucking balls.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:
crystal_iceburg said:
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
Perfection is a happy accident. Nobody knows exactly what the secret formula is to a perfect song, album, movie, whatever. If they did, George Lucas' sequels wouldn't have sucked so bad.
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Permalink Reply by BackToSchool on
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Not true at all. How do you think Beethoven and Brahms (and a host of other composers) were consistently creating better works as they matured? It's no accident.
I'm not saying Rivers has that capability--but he can do better than anything on Hurley. It's not as though Rivers in one burst just threw out Blue and Pinkerton into the world. Look at all the material made around that time as well, that is varied and just as good. He had a technique and more importantly he had a style that was his own: he had his own voice.
And he gave that up to try and make Weezer into a brand.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:Yeah, but that's beside the point. The point is you can't control the quality of your creative output, it just comes to you or is inspired by something. You can try to make it better, but you can't necessarily make a "blue album" or "pinkerton" if you tried, it just kind of happens.
crystal_iceburg said:i disagree, nothing could have saved the star wars prequelogy from sucking balls.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:
crystal_iceburg said:
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
Perfection is a happy accident. Nobody knows exactly what the secret formula is to a perfect song, album, movie, whatever. If they did, George Lucas' sequels wouldn't have sucked so bad.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel [bleed0range] on
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Well, you can also argue that Beethoven couldn't control his output either, but that the output was always good. It's no secret you can get better at writing over time. But can you always ensure that the music coming out of you will sound inspired? That it will always be of a high quality even as your knowledge of music grows?
Anyway, I get what your point is. I think Rivers could do better than Hurley too. Part of the problem is the loss of his style or the "weezer sound" I guess. Which is probably largely due, as of late, to the collaborations with others. Obviously Put Me Back Together sounds a lot like an AAR song, and well, you probably know why. The influence of other artists is going to be there.
BackToSchool said:Not true at all. How do you think Beethoven and Brahms (and a host of other composers) were consistently creating better works as they matured? It's no accident.
I'm not saying Rivers has that capability--but he can do better than anything on Hurley. It's not as though Rivers in one burst just threw out Blue and Pinkerton into the world. Look at all the material made around that time as well, that is varied and just as good. He had a technique and more importantly he had a style that was his own: he had his own voice.
And he gave that up to try and make Weezer into a brand.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:Yeah, but that's beside the point. The point is you can't control the quality of your creative output, it just comes to you or is inspired by something. You can try to make it better, but you can't necessarily make a "blue album" or "pinkerton" if you tried, it just kind of happens.
crystal_iceburg said:i disagree, nothing could have saved the star wars prequelogy from sucking balls.
Daniel [bleed0range] said:
crystal_iceburg said:
it's frustrating when you know perfection is possible, rivers is capable of making albums that rock my world, i just wish he'd make them already.
Perfection is a happy accident. Nobody knows exactly what the secret formula is to a perfect song, album, movie, whatever. If they did, George Lucas' sequels wouldn't have sucked so bad.
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Permalink Reply by Dylan Notter on -
"club anthem" since when do any of us want to hear Weezer make club anthems? I do like that song, but I can't take it seriously...it's an example of how his creative has changed since Blue and Pink, I still love almost every single album that they have made. Raditude is pretty rough but it has bright points. Hurley is awesome, case closed....back on topic, Rivers has to know that the quality of his songwriting has gone down, that doesn't make me hate any of the post-Pink albums, I just see them in a different light, I can connect with Blue and Pink on a personal level, can any of us connect with Raditude like that? I think not.
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