http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/this_is_beginning_to_hurt_a_...


it was posted in another thread, but it's such a good read it deserves it's own thread.

basically, karl, matt, and their A&R guy from geffen at the time give the history of pinkerton up until matt left the band.

for the people who think matt is a douche bag, read the article, and then leave your apologies.  and rivers doesn't exactly come out as a saint

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yeah, i read this the other day. great read.

sure does need its own thread, that's for sure.

it truly is shocking to see so much scorn towards Matt on this board. When I met Matt, he was really nice. his view towards fans is also super. He's given out tons of his demos, alt versions of songs and unreleased songs for free on the rentals website.

it seems that Rivers hijacked weezer and matt was right not to go along with that.
that's how i see it too. i mean, the amount of times that karl brought up how upset pat was just goes to show it too. and all the interviews, music videos, etc. all show matt and pat getting along together great, so...yeah. kinda seems like brian was just digging what they were doing so he was just rolling with it
this needs a bump!
it's a pretty good read for sure.
too bad the rest of .com won't read this.



legendofchin97 said:
it's a pretty good read for sure.
I read the article, was decently interesting. I will say through all of my reading up on Weezer it has always sounded like Rivers was a controlling douche-ish sort of guy back in the day. I've always liked Matt without really knowing much about him and wish he was still in the band giving us some falsetto. Rivers seems to be decent nowadays but I still wonder what life is like behind the scenes in the band.
I'm not so sure its 'use to be'.

I have a feeling that he's still a prick. seems there is still tension. after Matt was gone and the band broke up and reformed in 2000 I think it was Rivers's way or the highway. he might be a littler better, but a zebra doesn't change its stripes.



j-biebs said:
yeah, there's always a new group that really has no clue that rivers used to be an a******.
it's entertaining when they learn the truth.

Dungeon Master said:
too bad the rest of .com won't read this.



legendofchin97 said:
it's a pretty good read for sure.
Well, it can be looked at as being controlling or it can be looked at as having the better vision and not letting it get watered down. Let's face it, if the band was treated more like an true democracy...we might end up with more "Cold Dark Worlds, Automatics, or In the Malls"...which aren't very good compared to most Weezer songs. I've been in a few bands myself and write a decent amount of music too...I've found that some musicians/band members don't have a very clear sense of what's actually good or bad (at least in terms of what the average listener is going to like). So if you let those band members have too much control of the direction of the band, the end product tends to suffer. I think many times that the person with the best creative vision has to kind of steer how things go in order to keep the train on the tracks. Obviously, it's best to take the good ideas and input from other band members and use those whenever possible, but sometimes certain ideas have to get tossed out and that can be viewed as controlling. This doesn't mean that Rivers might not be over-controlling...who knows...but I think many band leaders get the label of being too controlling when in fact they are just trying to keep things going in the right direction.
"Cold Dark World" - not so good.
"In The Mall" - crap.
"Automatic" - good song. No offense to Pat but I'd prefer Rivers sing it. But that's just because it doesn't sound like Weezer without Rivers on vocals.

So..."Automatic", "My Name Is Jonas', and "Surf Wax America". Three songs that Pat Wilson helped enough to earn a writing credit on. All good songs. The latter to are great songs actually.

"Thought I Knew" is also pretty good, so Brian Bell can write decently as well.

"Cold Dark World"...yeah...not so good. But to me it goes with the "bad boy" vibe I feel Scott looks like he's trying to put off.

In my opinion, at least Cuomo, Wilson, and Bell could make a good songwriting team if you want to go that route. I heard a radio interview around the Maladroit timeframe where Rivers said he brings the song in pretty much done in terms of melody and guitar and the other guys come up with their own parts and harmonies. Dunno how true it was but it seems like a decent compromise if you don't mind just making up your part. Not so good if you want to really be involved in the songwriting as a whole.

I do know what it is like to want to have everything done your way and not really trust your other band members all that much to come up with stuff. But that was when I was playing with guys who really weren't on the same level as myself. Once I started playing music with some other guys who were all on the same level we could really fill the song in with our own parts and give each other opinions of what the other had come up with. Sometimes we start with a song one of us has written already and flesh it out, sometimes we fiddle around with riffs and make something up from scratch all together. In the end, by working together, we come out with a pretty solid song.

There is more than one way to pull it off. What it boils down to is making sure whoever, whether one or more, is writing the song is good at what he/she/they do.



ekloot said:
Well, it can be looked at as being controlling or it can be looked at as having the better vision and not letting it get watered down. Let's face it, if the band was treated more like an true democracy...we might end up with more "Cold Dark Worlds, Automatics, or In the Malls"...which aren't very good compared to most Weezer songs. I've been in a few bands myself and write a decent amount of music too...I've found that some musicians/band members don't have a very clear sense of what's actually good or bad (at least in terms of what the average listener is going to like). So if you let those band members have too much control of the direction of the band, the end product tends to suffer. I think many times that the person with the best creative vision has to kind of steer how things go in order to keep the train on the tracks. Obviously, it's best to take the good ideas and input from other band members and use those whenever possible, but sometimes certain ideas have to get tossed out and that can be viewed as controlling. This doesn't mean that Rivers might not be over-controlling...who knows...but I think many band leaders get the label of being too controlling when in fact they are just trying to keep things going in the right direction.
IMO, nobody here has the qualifications to say that ANYONE in the band, past or present, is any kind of word-of-choice. Unless you spent a great deal of time with the band, behind the scenes, you don't know what really went on or who really said or did what. Interviews and articles are never written objectively, despite what the author might want you to think. They pick and choose what to publish to paint the picture they already have in mind. It's annoying to see blanket statements made about any of the band members, if you keep that in mind. Karl is the only one who could honestly say anything about any of them, really.
that was a great read thanks
I don't have any bad feelings about any one in the band. They didn't do anything to me :) They make good music and put on a good show. That's all I know. And from that information, i picture them as good people.

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